Editor’s Note: The saying goes that it’s better late than never. I’m embarrassed to admit that the following interview with Collin Lee was completed in June of last year! That’s 11 months that we’ve been sitting on this thing! Time has passed, tournaments have come and gone, and somehow we (meaning I!) let this simmer on the backburner. But here it is at long last! An interview with the boy wonder (actually, that was Shauhab) Collin Lee!
You’ve been in the game for a long time now. I still remember seeing you as a little kid at tournaments! So the first question has to be: How did you get started doing wushu?
If I recall correctly, I met you for the first time at the USCKF national tournament hosted in Baltimore, Maryland by Grandmaster Huang Chien-Liang. At that time, I had not yet started wushu; I mainly practiced traditional martial arts, mainly praying mantis style and Chinese Kenpo. So, when did I start martial arts in general? I started at 3 years old at Richard Lee’s East West Martial Arts where I learned Chinese Kenpo and eventually traditional martial arts styles, which acted as the foundation for my wushu training. To be honest, I started learning martial arts because I had the delusional hopes that if I became good enough, I would somehow become a Ninja Turtle or Power Ranger….I have yet to come close to this dream. In 2000, I competed in Orlando, Florida at Grandmaster Chan Pui’s tournament where I met my first coach, He Weiqi. We then went to the USCKF national tournament a couple of weeks later and from there, Coach He Weiqi invited me to her house in New York to begin my wushu training for a week. From her and her neice, Jenny Tang, I learned the basics of wushu, including how to stretch properly, the basic kicks and even the early compulsory set…you know, the one we all learn as younglings! Since the commute from Danville, California to Long Island, New York was a bit strained, Coach He Weiqi referenced me to my current coaches, Coach Hao ZhiHua (Patti Li) of Wushu West in Berkeley, California and Coach Chen Daoyun of (at the time) Los Gatos, California.
So, as you can tell, wushu, martial arts, Chinese Kenpo, whatever you want to call it, has been the biggest thing in my life. I attempted other sports but nothing grasped my attention and love like martial arts and wushu did. It was just one of those things that I loved from the moment I started to move.
Can you tell us about your training history, and what you’ve learned from certain people?
For any wushu athlete, fanatic, lover, training becomes a lifestyle and is so integrated into your everyday life that everyday necessities tend to get in the way. My parents have told me that they did not think I would continue with martial arts for as long as I did; however, when I was 4 or 5, I started to spend hours on end at East West Martial Arts, going to class after class each day and would continue to practice even when I got home. So, since I first started Martial Arts, I was in love.
As I said earlier, my Chinese Kenpo and traditional martial arts background provided the groundwork and foundation for my wushu. I learned proper stance control, balance and general basics that all martial arts have in common; at the same time, I had some habits that worked for my traditional martial arts but were a serious problem in wushu.
Coach Hao Zhihua and Coach Chen Daoyun had a project ahead of them when I walked through the doors; I spent the first 4 years of my training (and I still have to keep up with it) trying to get the splits…Whether that was making me hold it for 15-30 minutes or being forced down until tears came to my eyes, my coaches ensured I had the necessary requirements for good wushu basics. Basics were actually the things that my coaches drilled into me; I remember some of my first classes with Coach Hao Zhihua and Coach Chen Daoyun: I had private lessons every week when I was in middle school with my coaches…remember me when I was 11-12 years old? The pipsqueak? Well, Coach Hao Zhihua strapped weights to my legs all practice so that I would develop some muscle and control in my basics and and Coach Chen Daoyun had me do Front, Side, Inside and Outside kicks all class. Although I still struggle with my basics at times, it was through this intense training that allowed me to endure the training that would follow.
One of the things that helped me improve my wushu and overall mindset was something that both my coaches did for me: they immediately put me in the advanced classes to train with champions like Jennifer and Cheri Haight, Jerry and Cindy Tang, Matt Berberi and Alvin and Alfred Hsing; in fact, the person who taught my first class and who taught me the old compulory was Mark Moran! I was this little kid who knew nothing of the wushu world, yet I was put into an environment which made me push myself in hopes of catching up. I won’t ever know if I caught up to them, but they all acted as great role models for me to chase after. I feel that this choice by my coaches was deliberate and possibly the tipping point that allowed me strive and achieve what I have today.
As I grew older, one of the greatest things that allowed me to develop and improve in wushu was my trips to China and the people I met there. I am fortunate and thankful the oppurtunity to have gone to China multiple times and trained with best in the world. My coaches did everything they could to get me training with the best; I did not know it at the time, but I actually learned my mantis form from Shi Kun himself and my broadsword from Li Qiang. Training with the Beijing Wushu Team made me realize just how good the best are in the world and it made me want to be just like them. I met people from all over the world who gave me advice and helped me improve in everything; I am still friends with many of the athletes there and I owe them so much for the great memories and training they gave me.
But something even better happened to me when I went to China; not only was I learning from the best and meeting some of the greatest athletes in the world, I met some people who would become my best friends and guides for me later in wushu and life. On my second trip to China, I became better friends with Chuck Hwong, who always looked out for me like a younger brother, and two of my current classmates, Kenny Leu and Shahaub Roudbari. Though I’m a good 5 years younger than these guys, they did not treat me as such; if anything, they treated me like I was one of them, and through wushu, we trained and pushed each other to become better than what we were. To this day, every time we train together, it’s like we’re in a small competition with each other, always trying to one-up the other. Yet at the same time, we were always there to help one another, whether that was trying a new nandu combination, or simple advice for choreography. The past few years of my wushu training are marked by Kenny’s and Shahaub’s presence. Their continual support, advice and brotherly love have helped me keep my wushu spirit alive and thriving.
Obviously wushu has changed alot since you began. What did you do to adapt in order to remain a top-level athlete?
When I started wushu, it was all about the compulsory forms; I actually joined when the new compulsories were just being integrated, but I learned the old ones first. Eventually, I graduated up to the new compulsory forms but was never really able to get a hold of it (anyone who knows me from the beginning of my wushu career knows just how long I struggled with the aerial!!!!!). About a year of practicing and competing with the new compulsory forms, I went Beijing to trian for my second time; I was privileged enough to be able to train with the Men’s B team and it was there that I got my first exposure to individual forms and nandu. It was pretty shocking when I was in line to do basics and when they said to the jump outside kick, everyone when from a standing position! Luckily, I was in the best place possible to learn all these new movements and began retraining myself; over that trip, I somehow managed to learn all new individual forms for changquan, broadsword and staff and some of the new nandu movements (including jump outside 540 and aerial twist). Almost every summer afterwards, I have been fortunate enough to return to Shi Cha Hai sports school and continue improving the new nandu movements and forms. I have been graced with the opportunities to train and receive advice from such great Beijing athletes, such as Wudi, Zhao Qingjian, Shi Kun, Guo Jing and many others; it is with their persisitent assistance and patience that I was able to achieve some of the nandu techniques I can do today.
Back at home in the states, my coaches designed rigorous training programs in attempts to replicated what we did in the summers in Beijing; Coach Hao Zhihua created an intense conditioning workout that made 5 minute horse stances seem desirable, a basics/jump program that were anything but basic (we would do every jump kick almost 20 times each non-stop) and many other programs specifically designed for us to hit the nandu movements. Coach Chen Daoyun also helped me improve my new techniques through repetitious practice and training. Both of my coaches helped me choreograph my individual forms to make them unqiue and help me stand out from every other form; because this system is fairly new with a relatively limited amount of nandu movements, my coaches wanted to add a flavor to my forms that made them unique. Thus, they stressed basics practice and added in movements that were very complicated and difficult to do (and they weren’t even nandu!) but if I was able to pull them off, it felt amazing; everything would somehow click together and it felt like I was just cutting through the air.
So, I guess being able to make that drastic transition was a combination of persistence and dedication from my coaches and sheer dumb luck for being in the right place at the right time and at the right age. I was still young enough to have my movements molded (to some degree) and in China to learn all the new nandu movements. I never really realized it, but I was extremely lucky to have been where I was and training with the people I was training with at the time.
I think one of the most shocking, and admirable, things the wushu community knows about you is that you also do competive san shou. Why did you decide to take on that challenge, what did you have to do to get to a competitive level, and what is your plan for that part of your life?
Hahaha…competitive san shou was amazing. I decided to do that because…well, to be quite honest, I didn’t make the Olympics. And with the whole mosquito, disease scare in Brazil, my parents and I thought it would be best that I skip that one this year (in retrospect, it appears that this disease was not present since no one I know got sick nor was bitten but oh well). So there I was, summer after my senior year in high school, unable to go to China to train because of the Olympics, no big summer tournament to train for. I felt lost for a long time. Then, in May, my traditional martial arts instructor, Master John Buckley asked me what I was doing this summer before I go to college. When I told him I literally had no idea (he had become accustomed to me leaving for the middle of summer to go train in China) he suggested I train to fight at the USKSF (former USCKF) tournament in Baltimore. To be honest, I was shocked, not because of how different it was, but because I didn’t think of it first. It made so much sense; I knew that I would eventually return to my traditional roots to fight with my traditonal martial arts school, I just didn’t know I was that old . Yet it made so much sense and I was eager to try it out.
Thus, I started my training in Lei Tai fighting / san shou in May with hopes of fighting at the end of July. To say the least, it was a very humbling experience; it was like starting over in a whole new subject with the bare minimal prerequisites. I had to do an entirely new conditioning program, be aware of new things in a new environment and learn new techniques. However, thanks to my wushu training, I had a few basics and strengths that enabled me to learn quickly and on the fly; the movements of wushu are unlike any other sport: they require intense muscle and body awareness, control, discipline and above all, determination. Therefore, things like footwork and resisting grappling came much easier to me than for some others (that may be due to my small size however ). But I could not hope to win a fight by just dancing around and not getting thrown; I had to learn how to throw effective combinations of punches, kicks, knees, elbows and throws to have hope that I wouldn’t get slaughtered in the ring. And, I had work with my height/weight deficit. But from my foundations in wushu, I never gave up, no matter how frustrated I was, and kept on pursuing my goal, just as wushu had taught me all these years.
Despite what everyone says about teaching (the student must walk through the door, etc.), I could not have won my fight in July had I not had the training I have undergone. Wushu training acted as a base to work off; my traditional teachers molded that and created it into the necessary for for fighting. Through endless hours of training, conditioning and studying, my coaches and peers persistently assisted me in my journey. My first day in the sparring class, every student and teacher was there to encourage and give me advice as to how I could improve my fighting; they taught me strategy, proper technique and ways to ensure I did not fall into panic. As training continued, it became more intense and I loved it more and more; it reminded me of the hours we spent in China training with the best in the world. The only difference was I was doing it in my own backyard! I should mention that the people I trained with are multi-time world champions and their technique and skill pushed me beyond my limits; I remember on multiple times getting my face smashed by so many punches that I counted them by how big the welts were in certain areas. Also, I definitely do not mind saying I got beat up by a girl now; I had to train with many of the women fighters simply because of my height and weight, but I was at no advantage; I had to walk around with a foot-shaped welt on my chest from a girl who side-kicked me to next week.
Overall, training in san shou was one of the best decisions I could have made; all the training sessions, whether they were an hour sparring session or an integrated 6 hour workout (yeah, we went from 6 in the evening to midnight a couple of times!), I loved every bit of it. I think I enjoyed it most because I was in a new situation in which I knew nothing about and everyone appeared like a master to me; it was like when I first started wushu again. I was excited to go to every class to learn a new move or combination and attempt to put it into use. I sense that san shou will soon become as big a part of my life and martial arts career as wushu is.
Ok, so, collin lee, the golden boy of U.S. wushu, is now attending Georgetown. Tell us about your university experience and its impact on your wushu.
Georgetown is a great university; it has all the resources I could want, all the classes I could ever want to attend (I understand why some people take more than 4 years to graduate; if I could, I would be here the rest of my life) and all the people that I could ever want to meet and establish friendships with. But it’s just that; a university, not a wushu school. There is no wushu at Georgetown; the closest martial art is aikido. Yes, I could have established my own club like so many wushu practitioners have done before me, but I’m involved in so much as it is that starting a whole new club would have been too stressful and the club would not get the attention it deserves. For the first month or so, when I did not have much work, I actually attended a couple of classes at Sifu Lu Xiaolin’s O-mei in Virginia and Sifu Jiang Bangjun’s new school in Virginia. However, being a college student, I have spend my time on weekdays studying and doing homework >_< and traveling to the schools took a few hours at a time. Thus, weekdays was hard train and weekends were not enough...I tried training by myself but it was not very successful. It sucked when I realized that I could not train 5 or 6 days a week like I was use to. However, this was college so I thought to myself, maybe this is a sign that I should be trying new things; college is suppose to be a new environment for new things right? And the majority of my life has been dominated by wushu so I decided to try a new things to see what other things I would be passionate about.
I tried a couple of other sports (including vollyeball which it turns out wushu does help with the jumps and power and general athleticism...but the natural height of volleyball players and wushu athletes has its distinctions...) which didn't really turn out...then I found the Georgetown Boxing team; since then, I've been training with them. I am now on the team, doing conditioning, sparring and will be going to tournaments and matches soon. So, as of now, I guess my future is going more towards boxing and san shou...but don't get me wrong, I will compete again in wushu....perhaps collegiates or CMAT next year or something gotta get back to work though!
Because of your experience, is there any interest in passing that knowledge on to others by becoming a teacher/coach or do you see your professional life deviating from the martial arts world?
Yes, there is some desire to coach/teach wushu and martial arts but I’m not too sure about it being a professional career. I actually have taught at my traditional martial arts school for the past 9 years so I have some experience in it. I am not any expert by any means, but I do feel comfortable and happy teaching, let alone some sort of duty to give back to a school/art that has given me so much. I will continue to teach every now and then but I do not know if I will be doing it full time. It is very rewarding and I feel right at home, I just don’t know if it is something I will pursue as a career. I will always be involved in martial arts, whether that is in a professional or non-professional sense, teaching and/or training.
When someone is as committed to wushu as you are, there’s no doubt it permeates every part of their life. How has wushu influenced you in terms of philosophy, states of mind, core values, etc.?
For any athlete or artist, when they practice their art so much that it permeates every part of their life, you know that everything they have done has been shaped through their experiences through their sport/art. Wushu is exactly that; every experience I have had, I have been able to draw on my experiences in wushu and marital arts. The discipline, self-esteem, physical ability, almost anything you name has been built and developed by my training and competition in martial arts. However, if I had to narrow it down, I guess I would have to attribute to main things to my training: dealing with frustration and humility.
Wushu may be one of the most frustrating things I have ever done in my life; you try and try and try and may never be able to that one move that you’ve wanted for so long. You work and work and work and can never get that one connection down. Everything boils down to one moment in time when you’re in competition; you may have hit a specific move 5 out of 5 or 20 out of 20 times right before your time to compete and in that split second in competition, you may miss it completely. Everything you’ve trained for up to that moment feels like it was wasted. I can remember countless times in practice and competition where I felt completely lost; my movements weren’t what I expected them to be. My frustration has always been my worst enemy ever since I first started training in martial arts. I always wanted more, wanted to do better, and when I was unable to achieve my goals, I grew extremely frustrated and felt like I had met my limits. I know that everything who has trained in wushu or any sport seriously for that matter has felt this way and learning to deal with it and improve from it has allowed me to continue training throughout the year despite the setbacks.
Wushu is one of the few sports where competitors actually cheer for one another; there is no smack-talk, little arrogance as everyone is looking to improve themselves and put on the best show they possibly can. Even coming from other martial arts, I am lucky and spoiled to have been exposed to such great companionship and sportsmanship. Where else can you go and compete in a ring with tons of people, many of which you do not know, shouting “Jiayou!” at the top of their lungs for you? To me, that’s the greatest feeling, knowing that all your fellow competitors are pulling for you to do your best and support you every. It really makes you feel like a part of something, you know?
BOOM. There you have it folks. Thanks for letting us pick your brain, Collin, and we look forward to seeing you continue to tear up the U.S. wushu scene for many years, wish you the best of luck at Georgetown, and all the best to you for the upcoming USKSF Lei Tai tournament!